00:38:28 Jane Mitchell: Hi, I'm Jane Mitchell, CSP Professional Adviser for the South West 00:38:55 Hayley Price: I’m Hayley Price, Physio from Portsmouth and CSP south central regional chair 00:38:56 David C-B: Hi. I'm David and I'm a 2nd year student at Bournemouth University. 00:38:58 Sarah-Jane Ryan: Sarah-Jane Ryan Practice Ed lead for University of Brighton 00:39:01 Amy Jepson: Hi I'm Amy Jepson, B7 PT and Clinical Educator with a student currently on a 'virtual' placement with me. Talking later! 00:39:05 Alec Rickard: Hi, Alec Rickard, Programme Lead, BSc (Hons) Physiotherapy, University of Plymouth and core team member South West Regional Network 00:39:07 Emma Ryan: hey, Emma Ryan team lead Ortho, Isle of Wight, vice chair CSP SOuth Central, soon to be a student ACP 00:39:58 Julie Blackburn: Hi everyone I'm Julie CSP Professional Advisor in North West region 00:40:04 Claire Fordham: Hello everyone. I'm one of the CSP professional advisers - leading on support workers. Happy to field any questions on the contribution that SWs can make to student placements 00:40:29 Angie Logan: I’m Angie & I’m a physio academic at University of Plymouth. I also work clinically in Cornwall. 00:44:15 Shan Aguilar-Stone: Shan Aguilar-Stone Professional Advisor CSP 00:45:24 Jane Clarke: Jane Clarke, private physio, wiltshire and community bank physio 00:45:39 00:46:01 OT and Paramedics are limited on their sim / virtual placements does this effect Physiotherapists - gill 00:46:48 no there isn't a limitation for PT as there is for OT and Paramedics 00:49:08 Will the CPA be 'mandatory' for HEIs or will they have the choice to use it? 00:49:42 You have got to have comments for that...you don't need to be patient facing to have a good placement and be a good physio 00:56:02 Hayley Price: I love the idea of broadening opportunities for students, including leadership and management! 00:56:33 As a student currently on a virtual placement, I’m thoroughly enjoying it and still speak to patients via the phone :). Don’t feel disadvanataged whatsoever, if anything can really focus on the autonomy and time management skills. 00:56:54 Sophie would you consider QI/research placements under this 'other' bracket? 00:56:57 Hayley Price: Fantastic Martin! Do you think it’s helped your communication even more? 00:57:35 Gillian Rawlinson: Yes I would QI an research skills are key 00:57:42 Yep, I feel there is even more time for reflection and research into how to enhance the communication time you get 00:57:46 For those that employ band 5 how would you feel about a student applying for a band 5 position with only a small amount of patient facing placements? 00:57:54 Will students be able to request an interest in these types of non traditional placements? (UOP 1st Year Physio Student) 00:58:07 Big focus on the subjective assessment stuff as well, which has been so valuable 00:58:40 Jonathan the key thing Is students meet the HCPC standards of proficiency so they will still need lots of patient facing experience but not all 00:59:03 Do you know if Erasmus placements will still be offered? (as I was hoping to do the one at UWE) 00:59:04 Where is Char based for the MSK work? e.g. within a department working next to someone or remote herself? 00:59:07 precovid of research placements mentioned in a Frontline article. https://www.csp.org.uk/frontline/article/student-research-action 00:59:11 our future workforce is going to be very adaptable :-) 00:59:45 Sarah-Jane Ryan: they are already showing how adaptable they are, so impressed with them 01:02:26 I also feel the ability to demonstrate transferable skills from non patient facing placements is valued at interviews. There is the scope to link the theoretical knowledge with virtual experiences. 01:02:59 Alec Rickard: this will depend on how they develop and each HEI will have their own approach. Due to the different and specific nature of this it may well be a more selective approach to match the student to the placement appropriately (but fairly!) 01:03:05 Thank you for the information tonight - great speakers. Apologies, I have to leave early. I hope a summary will be provided of this evening’s key points. 01:03:20 Question for David: Was this experience for MSK placements only, or other specialities as well? 01:03:24 Hayley Price: Totally agree with you there. We often take new band 5s into clinical areas they have never worked in. It’s the key skills of communication, clinical reasoning etc that allows them to then develop as a band 5. 01:03:52 I'm ashamed to say I had never considered taking a student in my leadership role. Thank you for opening my eyes and opportunities to consider for further placements 01:04:27 Some our colleagues in the community don’t feel able to support placements as they don’t have any office space. How can we support community colleagues to work through this barrier. 01:04:31 Don t be ashamed, just be open to new adventures ! 01:05:17 Alec Rickard: great you are considering now! 01:05:24 David C-B: this was just an MSK placement. 01:05:44 I also feel B5 rotations have the potential for a great come back, to offer the opportunity to widen clinical experiences, whether they are 100% face to face or not. 01:05:48 it would be interesting to look at these virtual placements alongside a clinical placement ie 2:3 days and maybe move away from traditional blocks of placements - id really like to look into this option more 01:06:13 Jane Mitchell: I think good preceptorship will support new grads into the workplace...…. 01:06:34 I would employ them if yhey are able to answer the interview questions well and show good clinical reasoning and essential for band 5 awareness of own skills and learning needs 01:06:39 As a newly qualified physio and having a placement cancelled and having a big gap until starting my job, I think this is an amazing idea to really acknowledge and develop clinical reasoning skills. As this was something I struggled to develop on placement. 01:06:42 Gillian Rawlinson: What do we think if every student was encouraged to do a leadership/ policy / research placement would that help its value 01:06:45 Sophie… how much prep will be done in uni to prepare students for a virtual/non patient facing placement? 01:07:00 interviewing students who have had these varied experiences will be so much more interesting! So much to talk about! 01:07:24 The theory of this is brilliant, however as lead for students in my service I've had to fight to get placements up and running pre-covid and am expecting barriers to be put up to the idea of virtual placement. What barriers have been encountered and how have they been resolved? 01:07:42 I would support recruitment to band 5 roles as the role of preceptorship is to continue as the workbased training - training and learning never ends! 01:07:43 Sarah-Jane Ryan: We had a number of students who did diverse placements last year and their ability to consider their transferable skills, true autonomy and leadership 01:07:45 I have found that despite my university trying their best, we have had our 3rd year mixed up massively. instead of the cancelled place,don’t being replaced by a virtual placement over summer, we started out 3rd year content (including dissertation) for the whole of June, and then we are doing 4x placements in 3rd year, and then dissertation due in December. This is definitely not what I wanted from my degree. 01:07:55 barriers from who Hannah? 01:08:01 With non-patient facing placements; because it is solely 'hands off' how would you support somebody with difficulties with verbal communication. 01:08:01 I think this pandemic will change the way the NHS works for ever so actually less face to face will occur so experience in virtual placements may actually be more beneficial for students applying for band 5 posts. 01:08:02 @Jane Mitchell, certainly! Preceptorship can now be such a relevant tool to really capture the skills new graduates bring into the workplace and identify what learning can be developed. 01:08:09 We must remember there will be opportunity for students to have F2F skill still in the hospitals.... patients are still being seen albeit limited ... it's quality over quantity! 01:08:14 Char, how did you practice your manual techniques and handling whilst on your MSK placement? or was it considered not required. How did you feel about not being able to test these out. 01:08:34 I would have struggled in a leadership placement. Needed all the hours I got to pass my assessments. I was a slow learner. 01:08:40 Would increasing the length of placements (beyond typical 6/52) be considered by the Universities to allow for a more successful split placement between F2F and virtual or with a few days on a different speciality (ortho with OP for e.g) 01:09:02 I use values based interviewing to get the right B5 staff with the belief that the clinical skills can be taught once working clinically. They are not expected to be clinical experts at the start of their career. Good leadership / communication / team working skills etc are key and harder to teach. 01:09:17 Shan Aguilar-Stone: think we will have to be clear on what is 'virtual' placement and what is 'tele health' 01:09:36 Sarah-Jane Ryan: Ohh no one is too specialist! 01:09:42 Gillian Rawlinson: How can physios be too specialist??!! 01:09:58 We offer paeds placements under Special client group 01:09:59 Amy Jepson: No such thing as too specialist!! Go champion the cause!! 01:09:59 That has been the same for Learning Disabilities Physio 01:10:00 totally agree with sarah-jayne 01:10:10 #help Totally on board with the idea of this - but we have struggled to get sufficient tech (numbers of computers / phones / webcams etc) to allow our own team to distance suffic 01:10:12 No matter what your specialty there will always be transferable skills to other areas. 01:10:31 taking students is part of our professional code of conduct 01:10:34 Jane Mitchell: There is a lot of fear and apprehension within the practice educator population and we need to support them to see options and get creative which is challenging when people are exhausted but it is vitally important for our profession. 01:10:40 I agre We have placement areas that wont take them as they don't get paid and they feel they are too specialist. very frustrating. 01:10:42 I have not practiced manual techniques on this placement yet due to no face-to-face consults! But these are being introduced in the coming weeks. Hope this helps. 01:10:43 Difficult to distance with own staff let alone additional students. 01:10:47 no one is too specialist - use the csp to support you 01:10:48 sorry to hear that although all unis have had to try to manage within their own circumstances, e.g. varied structure of the curriculum, local access to placements, university regulations (as well HCPC/CSP) etc. 01:10:58 Hayley Price: Fantastic, Thank you Sophie, Char and David! 01:11:31 Jane Mitchell: Yes Hannah to the email mentioned by Gill or you can send it to me mitchellj@csp.org.uk and I will forward it on for you 01:11:45 We have a student at the moment - we’ve not had enough web cams, an issue with patient flow and things seem to change daily but it’s working out. We’re learning as we go with our student. 01:11:48 well done Sophie, Char and DAvid….you got great conversations going! 01:12:18 Gillian Rawlinson: #help at learninganddevelopment@csp.org.uk 01:12:38 How have those who have taken students on leadership placements manage the confidentiality issues in relation to the amount of HR/performance issues/pastoral support that crop up day to day and may not be appropriate for students to be involved with? #help 01:13:14 Gillian Rawlinson: it's that innovation and resilience that is so valuable, there will never be a perfect moment 01:13:17 there is a historic belief that specialist services like paediatrics should be final placements 01:13:20 i think you will have to change the views of employers who might be looking for core placements in new b5s 01:13:36 I think remote working is going to be part of our work for the future now, so having this as part of student placements will help them move into future practice 01:13:39 Alec Rickard: to a certain degree the usual confidetiality will apply, with extra guidance and perhaps some selectivity 01:13:52 I agree there may be business sensitive information that would not be appropriate to share however I do wonder if the other issues you mentioned can be compared to the amount of personal and sensitive information students would otherwise have in dealing with individual patients and information governance applies similarly? 01:14:25 Social distancing appears to be a barrier for clinical partners accepting additional bodies (students) currently; some sites have altered working patterns to enable a solution 01:14:31 Employers need to understand that students will need different types of support when they first come into B5 posts. 01:15:05 Sarah-Jane Ryan: I wonder if they could worked on specific projects, eg developing the role of support workers in practice learning? 01:15:19 Would be keen to support students to do remote work in our MSK service but struggling with significant reduction in estates footprint due to covid and cannot accommodate own team due to need to socially distance etc 01:15:20 Claire Fordham: #help we can offer in terms of our messaging and resources at the CSP is challenging traditional approaches to recruiting graduates - encouraging employers to move to values based recruitment 01:15:51 @Sarah-Jane definitely, QI is an excellent learning opportunity 01:15:59 A concern for employers may be that if they do not have the experience in key areas that they will need more 'on the job' training 01:16:12 question - could we start looking into split virtual and clinical placements which could help providers to increase capacity - currently taking 2 students in a team where they only wanted to take 1 as one does M/T/W and the other W/T/F with a days crossover and handover? 01:16:34 Gillian Rawlinson: HEE pay a tariff in England for every student of approx. £88 per student per week . you need to check this money flows to your department not into central or nursing teams . all registered staff are expected to take students as part of agenda for change 01:16:45 Where I work, we only cover the acute setting as the community services have a seperate employer and in my time working in this area, they have had minimal uptake in supporting students. 01:16:48 Alec Rickard: your local HEI may well be open to that 01:17:01 We’ve embraced working from home (in an MSK setting) to adhere to social distancing 01:17:28 split placements are a great idea, especially if we are looking at leadership and management outocomes 01:18:20 Claire Fordham: Love the idea of 'core' placements being settings based. What a way to get community into practice education as core experience! 01:18:28 Great everyone is so innovative, but people are saying that students applying for band 5 do not need to be good at treating patients, but rather have leadership skills etc. Is this really true. What role are they going into at band 5 - leadership? or rotations around departments. Most students still do this on graduating. 01:18:41 #message: what support practice educators need right now? I think we must consider the huge amoung of changes and restructuring happening in teams all over the country now as a response to COVID. So educators (some of them holding a managerial role as well) are feeling the demand for extra support from their teams so when one introduces a placement... there is anxiety and uncertainty 01:18:54 If we think about community rehab post covid what skills does that need? not just CVR or MSK its a holistic whole person approach and we need to prepare students for this 01:19:03 we also have staff WFH in MSK - but think there might be issues with information governance / notes etc and getting students access to IT sufficiently in time for their placements. 01:19:43 Hayley Price: I always think students gain more from a placement if they don’t think of it as one ‘core’ area. So they don’t just come to orthopaedics and think MSK based. but also work on and build their respiratory and neurological skills as we do in normal daily practice :) 01:20:25 Question - I work in community paeds and currently work from home for virtual appointments as our base hasn't opened up yet and not looking likely for some time (due to ventilation system), would you expect the student to come to our own homes even though I am not allowed contact with my colleagues or patients without PPE so how would that work? 01:20:33 I don't think anyone is saying they do not need to be good at treating patients at all - that is still key, but as band 5s leadership still applies 01:20:40 Gillian Rawlinson: what support do we think clinical educators need? 01:21:26 Amy Jepson: Georgia (PT student) and I are talking about our approach to this situation next! 01:21:29 Gillian Rawlinson: Michelle they would stay at home and work through remote platforms eg attend anywhere, MS teams etc 01:21:34 Various community teams are using MS Teams for students to work from their home virtually alongside their educator 01:21:39 would it work for the student yo join the virtual consultation from their own home? 01:21:56 think educators will need to be updated on the advancements and developments with placements, as well as explaining exactly what the CPA form is and how to use it - perhaps another zoom? 01:22:10 redeployment has led to us loosing all gyms and outpatient department and we aren’t getting these spaces back. its tough to plan students when you don’t even know where you will be working the next week. 01:22:10 At Bournemouth we have rebranded all our placements to areas, Community, acute etc. Students and educators still label them resp, neuro, MSK etc. 01:22:24 I would love to see students exploring more clinical areas and move away from the 'core' experiences 01:22:25 as a student on a virtual placement currently we have been doing everything over teams and phone from home which has been working really well! 01:22:30 We need our depts. (cross specialty) to sing from the same hymn sheet, which may need the CSP to provide some reassurance that cross specialty placements will enable a robust workforce moving forwards 01:22:32 The feedback I am geting from educators is mainly some stability? and have a clearer understanding of what their service delivery will look like? Which of course it's very difficult and may be different from organisation to organisation. Perhaps a clear message from both CSP and HEIs that student placements will not look the same as they did before and that demands on educators can accomodate to changing circumstances? 01:22:57 #help I think IG and access to systems would take some organisation when all WFH 01:23:01 Has the CSP accommodated this variety of placements with the new common placement assessment tool? 01:23:09 Thank you for all the answers, yes certainly could teach via Teams but I see patients via AccuRx so I don't know how they could be part of that appointment. 01:23:10 I am also working in community paeds and we're using attend anywhere and that allows extra people to join so a student could join a consultantion from their home 01:23:50 *consultation! 01:23:56 Amy Jepson: We're using AccuRx too! It works with multiple people on the call 01:24:01 AccuRx allows up to 4 people 01:24:01 Ah I think I can add extra people with AccuRx (just haven't done that yet), thank you. 01:24:14 Shan Aguilar-Stone: Yes it is being factored in to the CPAF 01:24:27 Where do you write the notes when working on attend anywhere and keep these secure? 01:24:57 If we are looking to diversify placements (which is great) how will this impact the structure of the under graduate courses nationally?? 01:25:08 Christie Robinson: Apologies my signal is really breaking up. One of the key things is thinking outside of core areas can help draw in areas of practice who have not traditionally supported students 01:25:13 I like the sound of settings-based placements, thanks - it sounds really sensible and "like real life" 01:25:24 Question for the students- what proportion of virtual placement would you be happy with? 01:25:24 I have been taken students for years but always get nervous that I can and will be able to provide students with the appropriate learning experience, skills and knowledge covering the specific ‘core’ area. Having this new approach may help students and clinical educators to adapt and be flexible to the ever changing environment we work in. 01:25:40 We’ve got band 5s working from home (in MSK) and use the video consult with a ‘group’ to supervise them. It works really well. 01:26:14 we need HEE to increase our AHP educators for MDT educators 01:26:19 attend anywhere is secure, but we document on Rio. community paeds in Somerset so we were already set up for it so nothing has changed for us in that respect 01:26:49 Would it help to 're-define' our Physio core skills and for the focus to moved from clinical areas to clinical skills? Such as clinical reasoning, EBP, establishing therapeutic relationships, etc. Then those can be applied to a variety of clinical areas or patient cohorts. 01:27:33 Another important thing is also looking at the curriculums within HEIs to also adapt to the anticipated reduction of face to face patient contact 01:27:35 Alec Rickard: Yes, regarding the ability to manage across areas, I recall when I trained I really struggled initially as I had very discreet separate placements if I had someone with a condition in a different clinical environment, I really struggled with getting my MSK hat on to assess an acute medical inpatient who happened to also have back pain! 01:27:47 personally I would probably only want 1 placement of the 5 fully virtual as getting hands on experience is also important, but the option of split placements could then be included in others to give it more variety 01:27:58 when working remotely how do the students access and document in patient records? do you provide trust laptops? thanks 01:28:07 At Southern Health we have sent out a list of activities that students could be set in the community like this around nunderstanding holistic assessments, falls assessmetns, using csp links etc for resources. 01:28:57 on split placements, how does student grading occur? 01:28:58 Some placements will still need to be patient facing. We would need guidance with management of risk for both students and patients 01:29:35 #help: how are educators managing students when they are working out of their comfort zone. I'm an Orthopaedic Phsyio but currently running an AAU style ward with a student. I'm finding this a challenge so any ideas welcome. 01:29:41 Access to IT as a qualified member of staff is hard enough let alone trying to get extra for students!!! 01:29:48 That might have been me- hence turning my camera off! 01:29:56 RE documentation, we document on RIO, we could ask students to write notes up in Word and then check and can copy it into notes as we would have to 'validate' their notes anyway and we could write a comment at start to say this has been written by …… or the student maybe could have a formal letterhead head template from uni that they can then sign digitally and we could attach to patients notes. 01:30:04 we only have enough trust laptops and desktops for staff 01:30:16 Alec Rickard: this is where the common assessment form may help? 01:30:29 Gillian Rawlinson: Yes the CPAF has learning outcomes that can be applied to generic and specialist settings , eg instead of subjective assessment it talks about gathering information so that can be applied to a placement that Chars and they are mapped to HCPC standards 01:30:39 I would say a ration of 2:3 would work well. 2 days could be a remote learning/online placement and then the other 3 days could allow a student like myself to gain more experience in patient-faced learning (where it’s deemed safe). This is in response to Dawn but I couldn’t seem to ‘@‘ you. 01:32:16 Sophie Gay: So impressed with the student contributors tonight. 01:33:30 Is your clinical educator in the virtual calls with you? 01:33:38 Christina Tang Wah: telehealth sounds great but from the perspective of a student with a disability are educators aware of how to adapt to the student's needs to ensure they gain the most out of it? 01:33:38 Gillian Rawlinson: These students are doing a fab job demonstrates the skills they are gaining in these placements. speaking on a huge webinar is no mean feat !! 01:33:47 Great to hear your perspective Georgia.. Really impressed with the students talking 01:33:47 The student voice must be the key to driving change 01:34:15 It's really good to hear how positive the students are and how well they are adapting. 01:34:42 I do agree with everything to speaker is saying :) virtual placements are a brilliant way to learn 01:35:14 #message: if we are thinking of how important is asking for feedback from educators and students, should we not be actively asking for patients feedback who interact with students in these new style of placements? I think we could learn a lot from them and consider some co-production of placements to include patients, relatives and networks of care? 01:35:17 Amazing student voices tonight. Great to see and hear your thoughts and powerful to hear both positives and challenges 01:35:37 Christie Robinson: are you using your own computer or a Trust one? Thanks 01:35:55 Are there rooms in HEI's that are private with the necessary IT that students could access if they don't have somewhere at home? 01:35:56 How can the HEI support clinical educators to support students with more diverse placements? 01:35:56 CSP fund to support student acquiring adequate internet? 01:36:01 agree to! virtual placement provides a really good opportunity to work on communication and clinical reasoning, feel that it will be really beneficial for my development the educators have been really supportive as well 01:36:03 This format 100% works for BSc students, I’m a BSc student and works perfectly :) 01:36:24 Awesome work student presenters 01:36:25 I would agree with the need for patient feedback, working 100% virtually as MSK most patients appreciate contact but would prefer face to face contact especially for initial assessment and teaching of treatment/exercise/techniques 01:36:32 David C-B: Funding would be helpful. Is this something that could be represented to NHSBSA as a placement cost instead of accommodation? 01:37:29 Thank you for those working in MSK for your comments. Great to hear how everyone else is getting on and how we can support our students. Thanks 01:37:34 We are only cover the acute setting, so would be concerened about how to support a virtual placement as this would take the educator away from the ward even more then when you're supporting a student in the hospital/on the ward. 01:37:45 Gillian Rawlinson: Christina this was raised on a webinar where Ryan at Ashford St peters in Surrey has got over some of these experiences with placement he discussed a deaf member of staff using telehealth and he felt there are solutions but maybe its not for everyone 01:38:04 I think this is really important to value the patients experience with a student for feedback. Because some amazing things students do may not be acknowledged 01:38:44 Are the student/patient video calls recorded/can the educator see them during or afterwards to assist with assessment and feedback of the student and their skills? or are the calls shared with both on calls together? :) 01:38:48 #help: Could the CSP help with designing a tool to gain feedback from patients, students and educators? 01:38:59 will this change the interview process for HEIs? 01:38:59 We are planning to keep virtual consultations as part of our service delivery in future , there appears to be definite scope for developing our ability to provide virtual placements alongside more traditional models 01:39:31 Gillian Rawlinson: Agree service user feedback is key, user feedback / team member feedbacks are included in the CPAF . 01:39:51 Christie Robinson: Could be great to link students from HEI's to provide peer support 01:40:16 I work in community - our work has continued throughout covid and our student is coming out on visits with us and will be picking up some solo work when we have assessed her competence. She is currently employed as a B3 in the trust. 01:40:17 Alec Rickard: Plymouth uni have been interviewing new applicants since March via Zoom. What, specifically are you thinking - awareness of telehealth? 01:40:18 thank you, it's great to hear how things are doing. I am sure our educators would love to hear from you 01:40:21 Well done to all you students, you were all amazing!! 01:40:26 We are also planning to keep telephone and video calls as part of our long term delivery of care in MSK OutPatients, as well as returning to F2F as needed. 01:40:53 Utilising a lead learning style approach can be really effective as a peer - peer development. 01:41:11 Gillian Rawlinson: how can we encourage more private practitioners to take students? care homes? charities ? 01:41:13 Could patient notes be shared via 'share screen' and still meet IG requirements? 01:41:18 I will say as a student the thought of virtual placement sounds different. But when you’re on it, I haven’t felt learning is disadvantaged in the slightest 01:41:35 We are the same - we are looking at providing the option for video and telephone calls, as well as F2F in outpatient physio - this seems to be well supported by the local population who we have sent questionnaires out for feedback on the idea 01:41:37 Yes, Thank you ALL STUDENTS for your input tonight. Invaluable. 01:42:07 yes just wondering if experience with telecommunications may be advantageous for our future workforce 01:42:20 Christie Robinson: We are really keen to increase private practice placements and would love some help and support with building these placement opportunities 01:42:26 Alec Rickard: - private practitioners are eligible for NMET money, aren't they? But do they know this, as well as the positives of taking students? 01:42:43 Sarah-Jane Ryan: this will have to be included in all programmes moving into the new year. 01:42:49 Gillian Rawlinson: please share your experiences and learning at learninganddevelopment@csp.org.uk 01:42:58 Gillian Rawlinson: Virtal fracture clinics wrk well 01:43:18 Gillian Rawlinson: @alec yes they are able to access the HEE tariff 01:43:34 Re getting more private providers to provide placements. I've had great success in just asking. Overwhelming enthusiasm from private practice. They have a perception they are not wanted!! HEI's just ask them... 01:43:36 I suspect that our students are more capable than many of us dinosaurs at technology. Especially now! But we are looking closely at including virtual patient contact within programmes both at pre and post reg 01:44:32 Christie Robinson: We have providers who having experienced 2:1 really don't want just one at a time - I would love more of our educators to support multiple models 01:44:32 Alec Rickard: we have asked and whilst they kind of would like to, feel they can't and we have offered to explore further (we do have 1 provider at present) 01:44:42 We are already using a team approach to placements with 1 or 2 main supervisors with the rest of the team offering support and it works well. 01:44:47 Shan Aguilar-Stone: is anyone exploring week end working and or longer working days as a means of increasing placement capacity? 01:44:48 Gillian Rawlinson: Just need a learning development agreement (LDA) signed and away you go. we've had there offers of private practice placements and care home placements into CSP today! 01:44:56 I am hoping to do some work with our in-patient ortho teams and linking my student with theirs. 01:45:05 WE have also successfully run 2:1 models in outpatient departments, with a 'coaching' twist 01:45:30 This is great. We (band 6s only) were recently asked about taking students and at the time we werent keen because of the changes in the hospital and uncertainty in terms of ward moves, varied caseloads etc. I now currently have a student and the idea of 2:1 may make us reconsider taking students at this time. 01:46:36 If virtual is the new normal then the students should be exposed to this practice 01:46:41 such amazing development of communication skills virtually- essential for all areas of practice 01:46:43 Hayley Price: Shan, I know some of our teams (acute hospital) encourage students to do a weekend throughout their placement to get a feel for it! I have tended to give students the option. 01:46:58 if you could do a virtual placement in 360 with anatomy and q&a would that be helpful ? students 01:47:28 Claire Fordham: great to hear! Be interesting to see how much the students value that approach. We've seen with the #bestplacementever the deal breaker for best placement y is being made to feel part of a team 01:47:32 We always encourage our students to work a weekend (acute assessment and frailty) but it’s not compulsory. 01:47:33 Christie Robinson: Have any of the students on virtual placements recorded any video blogs for example that could be shared so future students going on virtual placements no what to expect? 01:47:53 links back to best placementever! 01:48:51 We have had two students in recent placements from Winchester. Historically only had one but the peer support they had between them worked well 01:48:54 Thank you all, really informative discussions. 01:48:57 i''m a second year student - we do 5 placements and I think just one virtual would be great - I feel like I learn so much more from seeing and being with patients than "book learning" at uni and I think the hands on aspect and the in person experience, and being physically out in clinical environments really really vital for my learning so I would always rather be on a physical placement- and as Georgia said I don't love the idea of phone calls! However I think it would be a useful experience for one placement and obviously may appeal to other people more for different reasons 01:49:12 A great advantage to virtual placement could be that geography is no longer a limitation! Obviously HEI work with their clinical educators and have their partnerships but there is potential for a national pool of placements! 01:49:15 If virtual placements and CPAF are being used, can students attend out of uni area whilst they are at home with parents? 01:49:18 We currently have students on acute placements- biggest challenge is managing the social distancing, particularly with increased in-patient physio numbers secondary to re-deployment. 01:49:21 it hasn't been mentioned, but is something we could consider doing 01:49:50 any particular settings i was thinking hands and plastics and the unusual stuff 01:50:00 Alec Rickard: it stil requires a workplace agreement and agreed supervision, but it's not impossibe 01:50:03 How would our learning as a student physiotherapist be facilitated in terms of working between online and patient-based placements? For example, if on a MSK placement what support could your educator offer? Would they offer support in terms of IT training and then hands-on techniques when facing the patients? Sorry for all of the questions. 01:50:14 Does a virtual placement have to be a separate thing? Can it not be incorporated into placements - in MSK outpatients Western Sussex we are using F2F/video/telephone calls - so our students in Sept will be accessing this anyway 01:50:32 I agree, I feel as if 2nd years going into 3rd year need to work on skills and patient management 01:50:36 I think caseload management relies heavily on information we hold and prioritise about the patients. What seems to change in a virtual placement is how that information is obtained? 01:51:10 I presume this would be dependent upon each individual student and how learn. 01:51:20 Christie Robinson: I think it has to be varied otherwise trying to find large numbers of the same type of placement at the same time may limit capacity again 01:51:22 Any thoughts on Virtual placements in a shared placement e.g. Adults / Paeds? 01:51:26 our MSK service will be continuing with virtual consultations in some format moving forwards and will become part of usual practice - therefore placement will not need to be solely 'virtual' 01:51:33 Are there any issues with overseas registration where students have had virtual/research/leadership placements? 01:51:39 Do clinical educators need to be full time? Are there job shares with clinical education? 01:52:06 we have full time with part time 01:52:14 Alternative placements could be at any time assuming learning outcomes are clear. need to remember that learning continues once graduated. 01:52:18 We're not able to record ourselves currently 01:52:20 Lots of issues around confidentiality when recording patients 01:52:21 Alec Rickard: yes, current face-to-face placements for my uni have plenty of part time educators, shared teams educators etc. 01:52:23 Sarah-Jane Ryan: key to this is not open to experience at any time...there will always be learning no matter what stage you are at....I often hear educators saying my placement is too specialist or should be later, I only want final year students etc For example a community placement is fantastic as an early one for getting an understanding of patient pathways and social element of their care to put into their acute practice...equally getting to do community later is excellent as you can draw on all your experience 01:53:28 its a legal requirement to be informed you are being recorded and give permission 01:53:32 I work part time and share a student with another part time colleague. When we are not in they spend time with the wider team 01:53:41 A challenge has been the availability of real placement contacts, a step up from case studies (paper based). This would have been very useful. 01:54:05 Christina Tang Wah: it would be beneficial to help with reflective learning 01:54:21 Providing consent, could just record sound? then keep a bank of different assessments for teaching. 01:54:40 Southampton did simulations with actors - they could be recorded. 01:54:41 we would need different goals for virtual placements for students at different stages in their learning 01:54:42 @Sarah-Jane Ryan are educators starting to be more flexible in current time? 01:54:46 Video recording would be great. Telephone also ?? 01:54:51 Could there be 'dummy' patients or pre-consented patients being recorded for learning?? 01:55:19 Gillian Rawlinson: I think it will be great to see how students transition from virtual to f2f and how they reflect on how their skills have developed 01:55:43 Christie Robinson: Could the CSP develop a bank of patient videos for example that HEI's could tap into for teaching or Virtual placement rather than everyone trying to record separately? 01:55:49 Sarah-Jane Ryan: we are getting students to do some telehealth recordings as an assessment next year 01:56:07 Will chat transcript be available as well as the slides/spoken transcript following this? Thanks 01:56:10 @Sarah-Jane Ryan I am seeing movement by mentors on the post-reg placements quickly to move things forward 01:56:25 My team is mainly Part time staff and we share students between two educators as a result 01:56:29 What do patients prefer/want ?? - F2F, Telephone, Video - depends ??? 01:56:30 We ran a three week Simulation placement in Southampton, covering MSK, CVR and Neuro cases. These were recorded and students had the chance to reflect on their subjective history taking and reasoning. There is a lot happening with HEE on simulated learning, sharing good practice. 01:56:32 Sarah-Jane Ryan: absolutely ....there is fantastic innovations going on right now and openness to see things differently... 01:56:50 I have to admit, I do think the students should try to gain some F2F practice with patients prior to graduation/first job - it may help with patient management and also confidence. 01:56:53 We are using teams to do subjective assessment of patients (actors) with students which is working well 01:57:32 #takehomemessage student voices are the most powerful 01:57:34 That is a relief to hear! After 30 years in the profession I was worried that we were going down the remote route which patients do not prefer. 01:57:36 Innovation should support best practice - not take over...……………….. 01:57:40 #messages we don't need to have traditional "core" placements, we can have really good settings-based placement 01:57:41 #message- flexibility is key. See student placements as an opportunity. No "speciality" is too specialist for students 01:57:43 One of the biggest private providers is the Nuffield, who I tackled at Physio UK a couple of years back as to why they don't take physio students, even though they have contracts for nursing, ODP and medicine (I think) students. Can the CSP lean on them? The physio lead said he would like to but their corporate contracts aprrently forbid it (even though they defnitely have nursing and ODP etc.) 01:57:44 Christie Robinson: #message there are so many opportunities for students and HEI's out there we need to harness this enthusiasm now and translate it into placement capacity! Go Physio! 01:57:47 Gillian Rawlinson: Please remember there is a tariff for all placement providers independent and NHS sectors 01:57:48 # messageDon't be afraid to take students during this time of change. Consider split placements 01:57:50 Sarah-Jane Ryan: #takehomemessage flexibility in our future workforce 01:57:54 Angie Logan: #Message. ‪we have a duty of care & responsibility to be a clinical educator. we need to see possibilities not barriers. 01:58:03 Amy Jepson: #message: Think about other options with an open mind. If you're worried, speak to someone who has done it! And go for it!! 01:58:07 #message virtual placements work really well, and have some benefits 01:58:21 #takehomemessage variety is the spice of life! 01:58:30 #message - don’t panic about placements, we will manage to complete the 1000 hours and graduate 01:58:33 #message - B8 need to get involved in student placements. will consider how I can do this and how to encourage others in my team? 01:58:39 #message - keen to explore the possibility of looking at split placements with our HEI 01:58:51 #help from csp learning and development how to open service leads minds to taking students in a "specialised" area, thanks to everyone who has privately messaged with offers of support after my rant! 01:59:06 #takehomemessage rebrand placements so no longer about the three core areas, and more about the placement setting 01:59:16 #message - lets get creative with learning and teaching opportunities! 01:59:23 #message: open up opportunities outside of the "traditional path" 01:59:24 #message- don't be afraid to do things differently, we all have lots to offer our students! 01:59:26 #message develop alternative ways of learning for placement, not to rely on face to face in these tricky times and beyond 01:59:26 #message non-traditional titled placements eg acute, intermediate care, outpatients instead of traditional (MSK/resp/neuro) allow students to think of a more broad based approach to treating pts rather than just having an MSK head on for example 01:59:28 #messsage - all learning is good. B5 will carry on learning after graduating. Don't need to have covered everything as a student. Broad skills essential. 01:59:37 I think that is really important to have patient scenarios to get students always thinking about red/yellow flags and differential ideas because I find the psychological input with patients and clinicians is so important and how you manage those difficult situations with patients 01:59:52 #takehomemessage rebrand placements so no longer about the three core areas, and more about the placement setting!! 02:00:06 #message - be adaptable and flexible with placements. Be creative in providing a wider diverse placement to allow students to grasp the true picture of our profession. 02:00:07 #message we need to be creative and dynamic to reinforce development of this in the next generations of therapists 02:00:08 Sarah-Jane Ryan: #takehomemessage we need to be flexible in our interpretation of the assessment process 02:00:15 Alec Rickard: #takehomemessage: students are the future! But WE are Physiotherapy 02:00:15 Is it going to be too broad to be able to standardise it? 02:00:17 #message - new ideas how we can support students in community paeds whilst patient facing work is a challenge. creative thinking! 02:00:22 Some care homes employ own physios. If we ask I'm sure they would be keen. Seen this in the North East of England. 02:00:24 #help - resources needed to normalise students to encourage our members to see students as part of the workforce and not seen as extra and a 'burden' - we need examples, resources and research to reinforce a different culture to student clinical placements 02:00:41 #help - marking criteria may need to change in line with change to delivery of care. Thanks Gillian. You have just answered that. 02:00:45 We graduated from Plymouth 10 years ago running group problem based learning which had case study patients that we then went away, researched and then presented. Worked well if you are self motivated and driven 02:00:48 #message It’s about clinicians and students working as a team to map out the future of practice education. 02:00:54 #help for students to be able to take part in virtual placements effectively we need to be able to support the need for IT, either a fund from CSP or possibly HEI 02:01:10 #message - more than one way to learn clinical skills like respiratory care so don't forget Home First and community teams who have a wealth of knowledge!! 02:01:14 #message 'anyband' students should not be taken solely by 'mid level' banded physios 02:01:17 #message we need to support our students to graduate when they expect to to help fill the shortfall in the workforce 02:01:28 #message: let's not try to get a square peg in a round hole, we must re-define placements and remain open minded to what they could look like. 02:01:30 @sarah jane Ryan- paving the way! 02:01:41 Christie Robinson: so far the CAPF looks good and flexible and appropriate to all settings 02:01:44 #takehomemessage Should placements be labelled by area and not in the silos of MSK, neuro and CVR 02:02:07 Sarah-Jane Ryan: thank you everyone!!!! 02:02:08 #Takehomemessage Post Covid WFH will be part of the new normal for many good 4 work /life balance and the planet. If virtual fits healthcare it should also fit students 02:02:10 #message - A diverse, holistic, resilient and transferable placement is so important for future development and skills 02:02:16 #message-anywhere there is a physio, there can be a student 02:02:19 Amy Jepson: I'm not sure about everyone else, but makes me want to be a student again!! :) such fun placement ideas out there! 02:02:33 Great chairing Jane Thank you 02:02:37 Angie Logan: Thank you all very much. Massive thanks to all our speakers & to our amazing host Jane Clarke! 02:02:38 #takehomemessage - future practice for students and qualified physios is extremely diverse. Being adaptable and taking on new challenges is something we will always face. Take risks but within your scope of practice! (I do apologise James Barclay, I didn’t meant to just send you this as a private message). 02:02:38 #message we all (educators, students, uni, csp) need to work together to support innovation. side note....please remember this evening is filled with enthusiastic, committed people, this does not completely represent the workforce and there is a lot of apprehension about the future within the NHS which must be respected and remembered 02:02:45 I want to do some of the placements that the students are doing at the moment 02:02:50 really great event, thank you! 02:03:03 I have co-ordinated students for years and never thought of the leadership and management experience 02:03:14 Great speakers, thank you all 02:03:26 Thank you everyone for tonight !!! 02:03:33 #takehomemessage The CSP are there for us as students, wherever challenges may push us 02:03:37 #message learning opportunities can be found everywhere, all skills are transferable. 02:03:38 Thanks to all, plenty of food for thought 02:03:40 #message we need to be more broad minded about the opportunities we could provide for students within our acute trust. 02:03:45 Thank you everyone - really insightful 02:03:45 Thanks very much. 02:03:54 Sarah-Jane Ryan: remember the placement tariff can be used to support hardware for students on placement 02:03:57 Hayley Price: Thank you for joining everyone! 02:04:03 Thank you 02:04:06 Christie Robinson: Great chat everyone 02:04:12 Thank you, very interesting 02:04:14 Thank you everyone 02:04:19 Thank you @Mindy and all CSP South regions for a fantastic evening. 02:04:19 Thank you all 02:04:20 thank you so much for such a great meeting 02:04:26 Hannah Willoughby: thank you everyone 02:04:39 #message - diversity and open-mindedness is the key to future placements 02:04:40 Thank you so much. Really helpful and the students did themselves proud 02:04:40 #message - as a student, to be open minded when it comes to learning opportunities and to jump into all given opportunities to broaden our skills and prepare ourselves for a constantly evolving profession. 02:04:41 Cristina Camacho: Thank you, great talks